Giuliani Flip-Flops on Waterboarding, Jokes About Torture
In Iowa yesterday, GOP frontrunner Rudy Giuliani followed Bush Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey in playing dumb on the subject of torture. It should come as no surprise that Giuliani would argue that whether waterboarding violates the Geneva Convention depends on what the definition of "torture" is. Even less surprising is that the same man who in May endorsed "every method they could think of" would now jokingly claim that he was a victim of torture himself.
Asked in Davenport, Iowa about torture and the enhanced interrogation techniques employed by the Bush administration, Giuliani mimicked Mukasey's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Mukasey, as you'll recall, answered Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's question on regarding waterboarding by elliptically saying, "If it amounts to torture, it is not constitutional." On Wednesday, Giuliani followed suit. As the New York Times reported:
Asked at a community meeting here whether he considered waterboarding torture, Mr. Giuliani said: "It depends on how it's done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it."
He went on to say that the way the practice had been described in news reports - "particularly in the liberal media" - he did not believe it should be allowed. But he expressed doubts about whether it had been described accurately.
Perhaps sensing a departure from his usual tough on terrorism line, Giuliani turned the discussion back at the Democrats:
Mr. Giuliani also criticized the Democrats for describing sleep deprivation as torture. "They talk about sleep deprivation," he said. "I mean, on that theory, I'm getting tortured running for president of the United States. That's plain silly. That's silly."
Given his own checkered past as mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani might want to show a little more care when discussing the subject of torture. After all, in 1997 four renegade members of Giuliani's NYPD brutalized Abner Louima, assaulting him in their precinct and sodomizing him with a wooden stick. That was followed by the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo, an innocent West African immigrant mistakenly gunned down in a 41 shot fusillade by New York police.
But even more problematic for Giuliani is that his unfortunate statements in Iowa contradict the tough talk on torture he offered during a May 15, 2007 GOP presidential debate moderated by Fox News' Brit Hume. Then, Giuliani made it clear he would resort to waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods early and often to thwart a looming terrorist attack:
GIULIANI: In the hypothetical that you gave me, which assumes that we know there is going to be another attack and these people know about it, I would tell the people who had to do the interrogation to use every method they can think of. Shouldn't be torture, but every method they can think of.
HUME: Water boarding?
GIULIANI: I would say every method they could think of, and I would support them in doing that because I have seen - [applause] - I have seen what can happen when you make a mistake about this and I don't want to see another 3,000 people dead in New York or any place else.
The practice of torturing detainees by the government of the United States, of course, is no laughing matter. And as the former New York mayor once again clear, "Giuliani time" is no joke.
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Who Would Jesus Torture?
One of the more peculiar aspects of the views of most Conservatives on torture is their propensity for dubious scenarios. For instance: Suppose you knew for certain…Only God knows anything for certain. And if God has told you—for certain that someone knows where the bomb is—then why doesn’t He tell you where the bomb is—for certain. Are you saying God wants you to torture people?
On closer inspection the favored Conservative scenario for torture reveals a curious conclusion. It begins: suppose we knew for certain that a certain man knows exactly where a nuclear weapon is and we also know for certain that torturing the man would reveal the information in time for us to disarm the bomb. For certain.
Interesting scenario. Very instructive. Let us tweak the scenario a bit. Suppose you hit the terror cell that planted the bomb and everyone was dead except for one small, female child. The child is a true believer who is quite certain that you are an infidel. As I understand Conservative logic, most Conservatives would torture the child. This was recently reinforced by a certain Aryan on Aryan talk radio. We shall give the Aryan a code name: Wild Pig on His Knees. Wild Pig on His Knees was driven to read a letter from a waitress on the air. In the letter the waitress said that she hated children. Wild Pig on His Knees is one of the Gang of Three Aryans who populate the Conservative wing of Aryan Radio. This Gang of Three say what many Conservatives believe but fear to utter. Namely that they believe that Jack Bauer style torture should be the rule not exception against enemies of the United States and people they dislike or disapprove of. Wild Pig on His Knees is especially vocal in his denunciation of people who do not meet the Aryan ideal. He has repeatedly stated that certain people should not have the right to vote, have children or even to saved by firemen from a fire. Rather like Adolf Hitler, Wild Pig on His Knees believes he has the right to determine which human life is worthwhile and which is not. Or as he renders it: He believes he is the sole arbiter of who is stupid.
While the words of Aryan Radio hosts such as Wild Pig on His knees seem outrageous enough, what is truly outrageous is how the Conservative government acts on those words. There are people that anyone who is either honest or intelligent would conclude have been tortured either by our government or by governments they were rendered to. Governments with a history of torture. It is instructive to note that all the victims who honest people believe have been tortured are of either a different race or a different religion than the President. Moreover, the only US citizens who have been held incommunicado in a manner inconsistent with the US constitution because they were suspected to be terrorists were of either a different race or a different religion than the President. Looks like an Aryan principle is involved here.
But I digress. What is that surprising principle that we can garner from the way Aryans like Wild Pig on His Knees salivate over torture? First I thought the principle was that they would torture anyone even a small child to save their own hides. In fact, I went further down this road. Suppose you know for certain that torturing one innocent person to death would stop a nuclear bomb from going off or reveal the position of that bomb to you. If a conservative is in charge then that innocent will not see her next birthday.
Is that all there is I asked myself? Is this where torture ends? Then I realized something. All of our enemies now know that as long as Conservatives are in charge torture as a means to extract information is in effect. The only thing more certain that is that lying about torture is also in effect. Conservatives lie about torture in two ways. First they try to redefine torture. For Conservatives there is one and only one reason to redefine torture. Conservatives want to get away with torturing people. The second form of lying that conservatives do about torture is denial. To hear this type of lying just walk up to the nearest administration official and ask them if they are torturing anyone. Let the lies begin.
Ok, so our enemies know that Conservative equals torture and that the conservatives now hold the executive branch of government. How will our adversaries behave? Given what are enemies say they believe, they would be more than willing to sacrifice their own to prove a point. So one might imagine that our adversaries would send out cells each of whom is certain they know the correct location of a nuclear device. Each member or the cell is sworn to secrecy not to reveal the information even under torture. Conservatives believe their Nazi derived means of torture are fool proof and would work on anyone. If the Conservatives are right then after the cells are discovered the false locations would be revealed. All of the locations would be under surveillance by human and electronic means. So the revelation of the locations would be confirmation that information has been extracted by means of torture. One can imagine that our adversaries might let this happen many times before coming to a conclusion. What conclusion would that be? Why don’t we let Conservatives tell us what that conclusion would be or what our enemies would do next? Conservatives believe themselves to be so good at predicting the future. If you say you know for certain that a certain man knows where the bomb is and you furthermore know for certain that torturing him will reveal the location then you are saying you can predict the future. Why Conservative prognosticators must be almost as good as those global warming types who tell us we must live in cold caves and eat grass because they can predict exactly what will happen 1000 years from now. Even though we can’t accurately predict the current hurricane season.
It would not surprise me if conservatives tried to say something like: you’re giving our enemies ideas they would not otherwise have had. If so, this would betray either the ignorance or the stupidity of Conservatives. Let’s see, the most recent movie I have seen wherein a group of people were deliberately fed false information so that could reveal it under torture was the DaVinci code. Given some the religious implications in the DaVinci Code, Conservatives may have been forbidden to watch it. Let’s try something more benign. In Star Wars, under duress, one of the characters reveals false information about the location of the rebel base. Not ringing a bell yet Conservatives? Let’s get old. Really old. Remember the Trojan Horse? The concepts: put something into the enemy camp that appears to be one thing but is actually another. Okay, okay. Conservatives only understand one thing. Remember in the Bible when Abraham passes off his wife as his sister and when the king finds out he says: are you trying to get me condemned to hell for committing a sin without being aware of it?
So we can safely say we have the torture President and he is head of the Torture Party. Let’s replace Hail to the Chief with the sounds screams. Let’s change the names of government agencies to names like Ministry of Pain and Ministry of Fear. The names of the Presidents men could become Torture Czar, Torture Lord, or Minister of Pain. And as long as I am indulging in low humor wherein nothing I say bears any resemblance to anyone or anything living or dead. Let me say as a joke, a parody, a farce, that as sure as there were nukes in Iraq and that’s what our men and women are getting maimed and killed there for; I am just as certain he said, facetiously, nudge, nudge, wink, wink—that every adult male conservative in the country knows exactly where every gram of illegal and contraband radioactive substances are on the face of earth. Yes he said, straining to haul a one ton block of salt with his tongue firmly planted in his check, I am absolutely certain that any adult male who happens to conservative know exactly where each and every one of the illegal and dangerous contraband nukes are…How do I know this you ask? Why that information is classified. If I told you I would have to….
Finally, let us note in passing that if you want torture you must vote for conservatives in both the congress and for the presidency. Only conservatives are soothed to sleep by the screams of the damned. It probably reminds them of where they will spend eternity. No liberal or progressive will torture people. Only conservatives enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on their fellow human beings—and lying about it.
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sohbet
Posted by sohbet on April 28, 2009 2:19 AMhi good thank youPresident and he is head of the Torture Party. Let�s replace Hail to the Chief with the sounds screams. Let�s change the names of government agencies to names like Ministry of Pain
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